AI and the Craft

Hi everyone!

I really hope this question does not offend anyone. That is not my intention at all.

This question has been burning in my head for the past few days after a comment on a FB group that I saw. The comment basically said that anyone using AI doesn’t deserve to call themselves a witch because of the damage to the Earth.

I deal with disabilities that affect my cognition and memory and use AI as assistive technology. I’m well aware that it’s responses are not always right so I make sure to check. But I’m just wondering if that was just one person’s thought or if it is a widely held belief. And if there were any other alternatives if not AI to learn. That’s one of the reasons I’ve joined this Coven.

Thank you and I look forward to the discussion! :slight_smile:

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A few of us use AI here and some choose not to. Each to their own.

I use it to help me sort out my jumbled thoughts into a coherent ritual or spell. I often have the basics, and research which ingredients will be included - herbs, crystals etc. But I’m not good at writing a chant or incantation to go with it.

Co-Pilot, which is Microsoft’s AI client, does a nice job of putting it together for me into a form which I can add to my Book of Shadows and I have even shared some here. I always state that it was created with the assistance of AI.

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Merry meet @SilverFlamePack

I use AI as a practical tool — like a thesaurus or organiser. The spells, intentions, herbs, crystals, and energy are mine. AI just helps me structure my wording or organise correspondences when I’m short on time. The magic is still mine.:sparkles:

Blessed be :raising_hands:

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As long as one is not living in a mud-hut in the woods, drinks rainwater and eats worms, has no clothes…we all have an ecological footprint. For example, fast fashion is hurting mother earth in incredible ways. The amount of air pollution caused by the current wars going on worldwide is heart breaking.
I think we all try to use AI responsibly and not just out of boredom. I´m using it very little, and mostly to help me make lists, sort out priorities and so on. I´m a witch since more than 30 years and I don´t feel that this changed because of AI. And even if one uses it to help structure a prayer, spell or poem…doesn´t make you less of a witch.
What I am somewhat concerned is all the information we´re so willingly sharing through AI…I´m not sure if this is a smart thing to do.
I´m also upset about the fact, that art from real, living artist was taken (very much without consent or payment) for AI to “learn”.

There´s probably not a simple answer to this question and everyone has to decide for themselves how and to what extent they want to use it - or not at all.
However the position this person took is problematic - because they project their own preferences onto others. I like to compare it to this: “Because I am on a diet, YOU can´t have a cookie.” :wink:
And we all know, that this would certainly not be true, right?

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I think AI can be a tool. I don’t like the idea of AI taking over the roles of actors and spoofing people, but gathering information and helping with things like that? Is fine.

I bet back in the 80s, people were saying that any witch who uses a computer isn’t a real witch. And now look at us! It’s a form of gatekeeping. People are trying to control how and what you learn. It’s nonsense. I wouldn’t give it any thought. I mean, JARVIS from Iron Man could probably be a full-on High Priest, he was so zen. LOL!

Now, I don’t like things like putting say, Robin Williams, into a new movie and using AI to make him act like the real Robin Williams, that’s just wrong. That’s what I have problems with.

I may have confused you a bit here, but yeah, AI is a tool and can be used for good or bad, just like a hammer or weapon. It’s up to you how you use it.

Hope this helps you some!

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Hi @SilverFlamePack,

That’s a good question about a very hot topic, and I think it’s an important concept to explore within one’s Craft and mundane life. Thanks for asking it! :heart:

I can see how some folks use AI to help develop their Craft or push their creative abilities to new heights. I believe that, when used as a tool to empower voices (instead of replace them), AI can be helpful. There are also applications for AI in society that might benefit folks or make life easier for us. So I do think it has potential!

At the same time, AI in its current state raises some big concerns for me. Current AI models have stolen vast amounts of content (included content protected by legal copyright) and have not compensated the human creators. I have had my content stolen by AI and it is not a good feeling. This tells me that the companies who own AI generally do not seem to care about using AI for good or using it ethically - their priority is to use AI to make money, and they do not care about ethics or how it impacts others. Because AI has gone such large scale, this is worrisome for me.

There is, as you mentioned, also the issue of the current environmental strain and damage of AI data centers. AI data centers are putting a high demand on certain resources, causing tension in local communities and counteracting global efforts to save the planet. As someone who tries to practice in line with nature and be respectful of the planet, it is hard to justify heavy AI use with continuing to respect the planet.

Finally, I personally have had to draw a line between AI as a tool and GenAI replacing human creativity. Creative groups I’m in - from art to TTRPGs - have put a flat ban on all AI content in their spaces, for some of the reasons I’ve mentioned. I see creatives take a hard stance against it and I can’t help but empathize with their decision. Because, as both a creator and a consumer of art, if someone couldn’t be bothered to make something, why should people be bothered to consume it? There is something beautiful about the effort that goes into crafting something. So when GenAI does it for someone, it loses the soul that comes from a labor of love - at least in my opinion.


At the end of the day, we have all to examine our Crafts, our believes, and our personal ethics. I can only say as I always do - do research and stick to what you believe in!

Blessed be :heart:

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As someone who has chosen not to use AI in their practice and uses it only sparingly in their personal life, I echo Bry’s response :white_heart: Do what works for you and your practice. :folded_hands:

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Fabulous Friday SilverFlame,

Not offended at all!!! Never be afraid to ask ANY question in this forum.. We are a ‘safe place’ for all who choose to come.
To answer you, that is THEIR opinion. We all have “limitations” (I am recently ‘waking’ from a coma). Limitations do NOT effect your practice. You are not putting all your trust in the AI, only using it as a reference (guide, just like the books). That is wonderful, explore everything available to make your own decisions.

That being said, personally, I do not like AI because I believe in the human approach/touch. I do not mind looking things up on the computer. (I am very tactile and a bilbiophile, but since I do not have an extensive library, I use the computer often to help find answers…does not mean that I ONLY “listen” to what the ‘puter says.)

Just take any negativity about the Craft, from the perspective that whoever is “dissing” about it, does not really understand it. You know what you need, and where your head is at. Don’t listen to the “naysayers”,

And, closing note….welcome to our “club”:smiley: :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

Loving in Grace, Lady Gene :magic_wand: (yeah, my alliteration knows no bounds)

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!?!? :exploding_head:

Never heard this before. I already use a computer, so AI doesn’t seem to be affecting the earth any more than the computer does. The internet has been my only access to AI for the time being, but I admit to being sheltered and uninformed. Besides, I do not use it for much- looking up population stats is a rare need in my position.

Someone here once said that AI steals intellectual copyrights and claims them as it’s own, which is really sad. Plagiarism is theft, and even AI needs to learn to cite references. You are correct to double check all info you get from it. (Written before reading other posts)

As for calling people names and being intolerant is concerned, consider the source. That individual has a lot to learn in this world. Please take all their comments with a VERY large grain of salt from now on.

I realize that seeing something like that can get stuck in the mind. I’m glad you asked: maybe we can help ease the drama within so it can heal.

You are getting by the best way you can, using what you need in order to create the best possible life for yourself. That makes you just as good a witch as anyone on this planet.

I heard some of that in the 90’s. Ironically, they were using the computer to spread that idea! :upside_down_face::rofl: Such were some of the same individuals using pre- AI to make cartoons do porn or putting one person’s face on a different body to “prove" guilt.

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This is a great example of what is called a Straw Man argument - deliberately distorting or misrepresenting one person’s viewpoint or situation, and making exaggerated comments like this, just to whittle you down or make you feel guilty. A comment like that is so over the top it can’t be argued with - but it’s also a gross misrepresentation of your personal situation.

Please disregard this kind of over the top nonsense. It’s only meant to sow doubt and confusion, and guilt! Makes my blood boil!

That said, I rarely use AI personally, and it has next to nothing to do with my practice. But I’m not in your shoes, and have no reason not to write my own stuff, and take whatever time is needed to get my thoughts down. I’m lucky - there but for the winds am I, right? :grinning_face: I hold you, or anyone else who needs cognitive assists, harmless from using the tools provided, which include AI.

It’s a somewhat fraught situation, thinking about the (real) harm these data centers inflict on the planet - and balance this with your own personal, real, pressing needs. It’s more the casual use and, like others have mentioned, stealing copyrighted work or inserting deceased actors into movies, or other dubious deeds, that raise my eyebrows.

You sound very aware and in tune with all of it. Try not to feel guilty - use it when nothing else will help, don’t use it if you don’t need to - and tell anyone who doesn’t like it to pound sand. They’re not the ones walking in your witchy boots. :wink:

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Damage to the earth is a weird argument. That aside, AI and its use seems to me, to be a personal choice, and nobody’s business., as long as it does not infringe on anyone. I avoid AI wherever possible as my own personal choice, but don’t judge other people’s decision to make use of it.

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I wanted to gently and respectfully clarify something about AI’s environmental impact, and I’m not trying to shame anyone for their choices - it’s just good to have accurate information. :folded_hands:

AI data centers use significant amounts of electricity (primarily from fossil fuels), water for cooling processors, and land.

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There are ways AI companies could reduce these impacts through more efficient hardware, better AI model training processes, and energy-saving practices in data centers. But right now, the environmental cost is real.

That doesn’t mean anyone is bad for using it. It’s worth knowing the full picture so individuals can make informed choices that align with their personal ethics and practice.

:green_heart:

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They probably didn’t even get the irony. Sheesh.

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@Greenbriar

I use it in the same way. I prefer a rhyming incantation but I can’t create it. I use ChatGPT because it gives me the information. I then create the page which becomes my creative input. Thank you for the tip about stating that it was created with the assistance of AI. I wouldn’t have thought to do that otherwise.

@katharina Thank you so much for your reply!

Oh wow! I had never thought about this aspect at all! Thank you!

Thank you for the chuckle and the analogy. That makes perfect sense and I think I might just borrow this analogy! :winking_face_with_tongue:

@georgia Thank you for your reply!

Thank you! I sure will.

Thank you very much for your empathy and kindness. It means a lot. AI has drastically improved my quality of life in the past year and I was torn about having to give it up.

@Feathertip

Thank you so much for your kindness and empathy. I greatly appreciate it. But I do totally agree with you. Stealing copyrighted work or making deceased people say things crosses the line into unethical territory

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As you have seen by the responses, we vary in our personal acceptance of AI but most, if not all, are ‘you do you’ advocates.

It is a tool. You do you. I like it - I don’t treat it as anything other than a tool.

I don’t critique people who don’t like it. I don’t try to convince them to come over to the dark side… but we do have cookies so… :zany_face:

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@Artemisia Thank you very much for sharing that website! I always appreciate as much information as possible to make an informed choice. :slight_smile:

@shari2

Thank you very much for being non-judgmental. I truly appreciate it.

@leilani1

Thank you so much. I have totally found that since being here. It’s such a welcoming community that has already deeply touched my heart that my eyes are “leaking” as I type this! :laughing:

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Ah. Yes. That I can see. It’s just like when computers first started. A whole room was needed for a computer to do the simplest things. Now, they fit in the palms of our hands. Technology will improve that footprint over time. Thank you for sharing!

That would be the saddest thing.

:people_hugging:

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Hi @SilverFlamePack :waving_hand:t4:

I do love these kinds of discussions, especially seeing all the variation between answers! Allow me to stick my nose in too, and full transparency up until a couple of years ago my only experience of AI was The Terminator (any version). I am not a fan. But before we get to that, first let’s deal with this:

Firstly, whoever said that needs a virtual slap with a sledgehammer. It’s mean, and rude, and just… so not cool.

Second, that is the most ignorant thing I’ve heard so far this year. Let’s be clear - AI isn’t damaging the Earth, humans are. AI did not destroy forests, build oil platforms, create the internet or anything else we’re trying to blame it for. We effed up the planet all by ourselves and we know it.

Now, I have always had an intense dislike for AI and probably part of me always will, maybe because it’s now doing all the things the movies said it would, and we all know how those movies ended. Spoiler: we do not fare well. But, after I watched a Netflix documentary called “What’s Next? The Future with Bill Gates”, I started to appreciate its benefits like providing education to children who otherwise wouldn’t be educated. I don’t use AI in my Craft at all, I started using it to make pictures for my website this month (I pray the Light removes John Connor’s ghost awomen) because I can’t draw for shizzle. So I agree with what seems to be the general consensus: it is a tool, and as such, there will be people who use it for good, and people who use it for bad.

With all that said, I would never demean or make someone feel bad for using AI, because why would I care anymore than they would care if I used it? Someone else using it does not affect my life in any way (unless you unleash the Apocalypse in which case I will be haunting your butt for all eternity), so I don’t think I have any right to say whether someone should or should not use it. Just like I have no right to tell someone what to eat, who to love or who to pray to… this century has pushed us so deeply into each other’s lives, we now think we have a right to pass judgement on any and every part of someone’s life.

I think at the present moment, my biggest concern is that we can’t tell the difference between human work and AI work anymore. Humans programmed AI to steal the content of millions to learn from it, so it learned from the best - us. So now it can create content just like we do, and it can do it better. I agree that work created by a human has soul in it, but there are some AI creations I’ve seen which one could argue also have soul, so how do you tell the difference. Also, AI learned the good and the bad, and I’m not a fan of vulnerable people being alone chatting to AI and receiving potentially harmful suggestions.

To come back to you, whether you have a condition or not is irrelevant in my opinion… if you want to use it, then use it. Whether or not you use it won’t change the fact that it’s there, and if it helps you then why not? Yes, data farms use lots of electricity, water and land - just like pretty much everything else on the planet does. Again, AI did not create data farms, humans did; let’sput the blame where it belongs. Factories use electricity, water and land, but I don’t see anyone telling people to stop buying clothes. Even though we’re producing ridiculous amounts we do not need. Rant over, Phoenix out :laughing:

x Blessed Be x

P.S. I love that cookies analogy too! :clap:t4::clap:t4:

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Hello lovely. Can I answer this from a spiritual perspective. Firstly, each person is accountable for their own choices to the gods, universe, nature or whatever you choose to name it. As witches we are in my teachings, servants of spirit and nature. Meaning, we work with, honour and protect the above.

AI Technology in my view works like an egregore and can, when amassed enough human spirit, develop a soul of its own, much like how a rock star can become a god and have a euphoric energy every time they are anywhere. The egregore can become, when fed, damaging to our ability to connect with spirit.

In light of this, and as a result of a few experiments I have done using runes with AI and runes without AI, I have chosen not to use AI. It’s not the technology that is at fault, I’m typing this on a technological device, it’s the energy, spirit and egregore that the AI is developing into. What has the potential to be a good tool, is being pushed by greed and profit. Yes, this is human initiated, however, what we as witches put our energy into, will reflect how the gods, spirit or whatever we witches connect with - view us. I follow a believe system that is embedded in Yggdrasil, and the feedback in my own ritual and spellwork is weaker with AI, the connection is weaker, there are blockages. The gods don’t like it. Why? They’ve yet to say, but the AI egregore stifles my ability to be intuitive, and as one Nordic witch said, “feeds the word gods to control what you think, rather than let you develop your own thoughts, your own way, at your own pace.”

Now that’s not too say that in the future, if AI, and the humans behind it change their mindset, that the egregore may shift in its energy, who knows. But for now, my gods say no, the runes have said no, so I’ll leave it there. This could just be my practice as the Nordic practice has its own way about it, but you asked, so I answered.

Perhaps the best advice I can give to you lovely, is take this to your gods, and see what they tell you and take it from there. :green_heart:

A note on this: my son is disabled and I work in care with disabled. Assistive technology is different from using AI to be a witch, if that makes sense, just be wary of all that AI says, for example, I use runes and when it comes to the runes, it gets it wrong quite a lot, or just hits the surface of the actual energy behind the system, an example, AI will give you the standard story about Odin and Loki, however, a textbook written by a Nordic practitioner will start teaching about archetypes, jung philosophy and physics of order, chaos, the big bang and cycle of world orders, how the gods are entities but also not entities etc - very different from Neil Gaiman Norse myth. Alot of my clients use assistive technology to read these kinds of books, and the knowledge of whatever they’re learning too them, so they’re getting the teachings without the inaccuracies of AI, just a heads up. If I’m learning something new, I don’t use AI as I’ve been caught out too many times. So not to dis AI, but here’s an example of what you miss when you just use AI.

I asked AI about the rune :raido: it said:

You can see from the screenshot it’s limited, and the sources are few, and some are new age sources not Norse, which is a different rune understanding. Here’s what a rune master wrote about :raido: who’s from Scandinavia:

“The gods are the embodiment of the natural laws and powers, which keeps the sun and moon turning correctly and protects from the chaos of the giants. They are the ones who battle the cosmic struggle to maintain order. Audhumla licked on salt stones to keep herself alive and from them the first God of the Aesir was born. His name Bure. Bure had a son named Bor and Bor took a wife Bestla who gave birth to Odin (who is the Spirit) and Ve and Vile. The first Aesir killed the giant Ymir or subordinated the raw energy and created the manifest universe. This is symbolised by the rune :ansuz: which is followed by :raido: as :raido: stands for order and control of the 4 directions and the elements. It is Thor’s rune and Thor is the restorer of the cosmic order, thus :raido: is linked with the enlightened thunderbolt. :raido: is also movement and direction but it’s linked to the first phase of creation. This rune holds up the 4 directions in the world. Because :raido: is linked with lightening it is followed by :kaunan:

And so it goes on, but in this example, see how much deeper the teaching is when it comes from someone who uses the magical tool in their practice, as opposed to a computer company that has put together a bunch of books, websites and come to a conclusion without having practiced the craft. I’m not anti the concept of AI, I just feel it’s all being rushed and not properly thought out, such is the outcome of Inventions when controlled by corporations. :person_shrugging: The other downside is you’re just getting a western, commercial esoteric view, as alot of the real wisdom is learned via community and is algorithm free (like right here on Spells8 - this community is a well of wisdom) :grin:

How you choose to identify yourself, is your right. You are a witch, you identify yourself how you choose.

I don’t like AI but the above is damn out of order. So ignore it, ignore them, make a dolly of them and stick pins in it (just kidding :joy:)

Skal :clinking_beer_mugs: :green_heart:

The above quote is partly paraphrased by me for the sake of time and space, but is from the book:

Waking the dragons Norse Myth, Runes and Magic by Andreas Kornevall.

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On a side note, I asked AI for a laugh if I should use it in divination/magic, here’s what it said:

For AI I found its answer quite intuitive, the egregore is learning :rofl:

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