@tracyS Are you my secret long lost sister? O feel like we think the same way. These are the same debates I have had over and over…
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I think it depends on the definition. Cults can be OK and they can be… not OK. That was part of the definition that I posted - definitely doesn’t apply if the definition is all negative.
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I agree with that too
this makes total sense to me. I don’t know anything about demonolatry nor have I studied other religions or the bible but when I read this it totally rung 
for me if that makes sense…
Yes! Im not very versed in histories but I have always kind of felt this way.
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Hey sister. It’s a great way to get ourselves out of the boxes society puts us in and see how others view the world, 
There’s a few posts here
Demonolatry (Demon/Daemon) Master Post
What is Christian Witchcraft & How to do it
And here’s one on chaos magician, the side of a chaote where you step into a paradigm, become it to really understand it, then step out and do it all over again. It’s a great way if you can emotionally take it on to really live different belief systems rather than just study them.
Anyways I divert, sorry @Nikki-Phoenix it’s supposed to be about the first cult. 
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Now things are getting interesting, it’s so lovely to see so many insights here!
Okay frankly, I don’t care if those histories are true or made up - that is essentially the gossip aka reality of the ancient times and by the Light I really wanna read it!!
Now that did not occur to me, but makes total sense!
Many thanks for providing such variety hun, although I have to admit I am still wrapping my brain around the Christian Mysticism. Like I said, I always suspected Jesus was a mystic (dude turned water into wine, hello)… but the merging of Christianity and Mysticism is something I just can’t grasp yet, after decades of them being completely separate. That said, my studies in the last few years have shown it to be a reality in many ways - hello, archangels in tarot cards.
My friend took me with her to church once, and it was exactly that - an hour later, everyone was leaving. I asked her about fasting or testimony service, what time we’re coming back later… she looked at me like I was speaking German again. Literally, they go to church for like an hour and that’s it. For the whole day. I asked my mum why our services weren’t like that, she told me that our people believe it’s worth the time because it’s only one day a week, and if something is worth doing then it’s worth doing right. I got what she meant, it totally made sense, but I still wished our services were short and sweet too!
You’re most welcome 
Me too, I always thought it would be awesome to be able to speak to anyone in any language - the learning always held me back 
I totally should’ve changed the title to “Was Christianity the first global cult” lol
This. The fundamental problem when it comes to humanity is, I think, perspective. Ask 10 people from 10 different countries to describe World War 1, and I bet you’ll have 10 stories which differ slightly but all have truth in them; in the same way maps in schools have their country in the center, we all can see the same things differently and still all be accurate, technically speaking. There are many things which nearly all religions have in common, such as a hierarchy, angels, certain areas of life have a being assigned to them… are they all wrong, are they all right, who knows, but the difference is the perspective, not the faith. As I’ve said before, when we humans believe, we believe with everything and will literally defend it to the death, so the quote rings so true.
Now when I speak of a cult, I’m thinking of an extreme view which has twisted the “religion” and includes the killing of others; not sacrificed, but killed for whatever reason their God provided. I agree that all religions have extremists, but not all of those extremists resort to killing others; the reason I wondered if Christianity was the first, is because it is literally global, and the journey it took could be called cultish, and yet it is socially acceptable. As for whether all religions can all be right, well technically I think they can - the fact is, our understanding of beings is rather limited to our teeny tiny brains, and every single piece of information we have about them was told by a human. We have no right to pass judgement because we weren’t there, but there are some who question everything simply because it came via a human (as far as most know). How is a cult leader who creates a religion to commit atrocities and claims it is from God, any different to a preacher in ancient times saying exactly the same thing and killing all who oppose it? I’m not saying all preachers were deviant or criminal, but I’m also not naïve enough to think that such behaviour did not exist prior to the 20th century.
I love the way you make my brain tick a different tock! I’m wondering how cults can be okay? Of course it depends on the definition, but if cults are generally a bad thing, how can they be okay, at least for the people in them?
No apologies here woman, I’m loving the way this discussion is unfolding!
I would love to be able to travel back and view history for myself, so I could know about certain things. That said, if anyone is interested in viewing apparently real magic caught on camera (pre Photoshop and AI), check out Amazon Prime’s The World’s Strangest Mysteries, and I’ve got just 4 words for you… Episode One, Sky Portal. The fact it happened in England is irrelevant
With Love & Light x
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Very good point! Gold star to you! 
Although I do wonder about the good in Scientology. I can’t understand it enough to figure it out.
It’s like Schrödinger’s cat. We won’t know what the afterlife is until we get there.
Enquiring minds want to know!
Yeah, I get that. We had some good sermons though. Pastor Clay was my favorite. He was a nice, older gentleman, and for his very first sermon when he was assigned to our church, he preached “Clowning for Jesus” and dressed as a clown. Full outfit, big shoes, rainbow hair. The works.
And I gotta tip my hat to the Methodists. They do preach that they accept everyone. They were one of the first churches to have women preachers, and my Mom was a certified Lay-preacher to help fill in at the church. And they have removed all the anti LGBTQ+ rules, and will allow same sex marriage now.
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Summary
Across scholarly, historical, and popular sources, several overlapping elements appear: (from Britannica mostly)
- Small or insular group organized around a person, idea, or philosophy.
- Beliefs or rituals considered unusual, extreme, or outside the cultural mainstream.
- High levels of devotion to a leader, object, or doctrine.
- Tension with dominant society, either socially, culturally, or religiously.
- Potential for coercive or manipulative control, including isolation, indoctrination, or behavioral regulation.
These elements are descriptive, not moral judgments—though in modern usage, the term cult is often pejorative.
Check the definition I used on my first post (reposted above).
Yep… if you go in thinking cults are all bad, then it skews the answer. There is general consensus that, at least nowadays, the word cult is often pejorative. However, some groups show traits sometimes associated with cults—tight community, intense practice, strong identity—but lack the coercive control that defines harmful cults.
In the sense of the above definition, I went to the statement that all religions were cults when they first started. They fit the definition almost perfectly.
While cults are usually considered small, what are they called when they grow to millions or billions of people? When, for instance, did Christianity stop being a cult? Or… did it?
Examples of cults that don’t show authoritarian control… thus satisfying a test for a “good” cult. Most of this was found by searching on “coercive control” (an indicator of cultism). Here is a link.
Vipassana is an ancient meditation practice taught in 10‑day silent retreats. It is highly structured and immersive, which can look “cultish” from the outside, but it is non‑dogmatic, voluntary, and focused on personal growth. It focuses on mindfulness, emotional healing, supportive community, universal (non‑sectarian) teaching.
Animism views all natural entities as spiritually alive. While deeply worldview‑shaping and communal, it is not coercive and often fosters environmental stewardship, cultural preservation, and spiritual fulfillment.
Modern Druid groups emphasize nature reverence, seasonal rituals, and Earth‑centered spirituality. They can be close‑knit and ritual‑heavy—traits sometimes labeled “cultish”—but they generally promote connection, creativity, and ecological ethics without authoritarian control.
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Interesting 
Key Takeaways from the below website.
Cults demand intense loyalty to a strict belief system or charismatic leader.
People may join cults because they desire a sense of belonging, guidance, or purpose, even though there are high personal costs.
Recognizing the signs of a cult and knowing where to get help can protect you or the people you care about.
A cult is a group that centers around a shared devotion to a person, belief, or ideology. These groups often require intense devotion and loyalty and use manipulation and control to enforce and maintain power. Recognizing the signs that make something a cult can help people better recognize when a group crosses the line.
Experts suggest that this coercive control distinguishes these groups, not their connection to specific faiths, religions, or belief systems.
I think the above really helps to see whether a group/organisation is a cult.
From the below website
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-a-cult-5078234
I will have to agree to disagree on cult definition lovely with the druids, one of my friends is a druid and they would be very offended to be referred to as a cult. Animism also I wouldn’t classify as a cult, it’s too broad. I think caution is needed with this word, not so much in a historical sense, as the first century followers of Jesus were called a cult/sect (acts28v22 ESV) but to use it to refer to modern practicioners within ancient traditions gives the wrong idea to modern people. Cults today are dangerous and cause lifelong harm which sometimes can never be healed.
For me I personally wouldn’t use the term “good” cult at all today, one of my councillors is a cult specialist and it’s not a word that’s used today for any positive means (except maybe when you’re remembering that awesome band The Cult 
).
The examples of retreats is an interesting one though, as some of those have been investigated and shut down for being a “cult”. Shows me really that it’s not exclusive to Christianity.
Great discussion by the way. Good to see all views. Love this coven 
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If the definition of a cult includes the necessity of authoritarian control, then I agree with all you posted.
It all depends on the definition one accepts. I took mine from from Britannica but there are websites that refer to cults as bad in all cases. Our language moves and, generally, the word ‘cult’ is considered a ‘bad’ word but for most of its history, it could have both connotations. I accept that the word ‘cult’ can have both dark and light meanings.
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I wondered if anyone would mention the big S lol! For me, Scientology is a classic example of a cult turned into a religion - from what I’ve seen and heard, it was literally created as a cult, and some followers branched off and it’s their religion minus the nasty stuff.
I can’t imagine what that was like and big hugs to you, but I’m not sure those lessons are specific to a cult? My experience wasn’t extreme by any means, but with religion playing such a significant part in our lives, I learned those lessons too. The only thing worse than being “caught” by our parents was being caught by a member of the congregation cause they were all snitches, so much was hidden both literally and within.
Agreed, but at the same time it isn’t a question I would ever knowingly ask a survivor, you know? I know how rough it is for me when I’m triggered, and I’d hate to do that to anyone else.
Yeah, the dude makes it look good. And I’m not saying that as a fan of his work - it just makes me wonder about the religion aspect of Scientology (if there is such a thing) because frankly, the dude hit the stratosphere after getting with the Hubbard crew so… 
Sorry that wasn’t clear if you’re using the britannica definition, then I wonder what their difference is between a cult, a culture and a religion, because it seems blurred. I also wonder whether a religion can have the potential for coercive control, as I feel like that’s a human thing so literally anything has the potential for coercive control. By that definition then yes, all religions started out as cults… according to whom? Mainstream society… I think the word cult is pejorative for a reason, it’s the corruption of a culture, but I think suggesting every culture’s belief system is a cult just because it goes against the mainstream is a dangerous road.
Exactly 
because I don’t think it did stop but I could be wrong hence the topic lol
Same. I dont think I have the right to say whether or not someone’s beliefs are “good” or not anymore than they can judge mine, but I can’t see a cult as being good. I also don’t think your examples are cults, but by the britannica definition I can see why they’re included, and it’s a fascinating perspective. I feel like the pure form of a culture/beliefs/religion doesn’t necessarily do the harm (except for the obvious instances); it’s the way one or more humans distort it for their gain, and that’s what makes it a cult.
I love the way you guys tickle my brain! 
With Love & Light x
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I don’t either. However, it has good parts but the Dogma, and coercive nature actually does fit the ‘bad’ part of the definition of a cult. Same with many other organized religions.
When I was about 9, a Catholic priest cornered me in a house he was visiting and threatened me with damnation unless I immediately joined his church. The episode lasted for a half hour or so. It was a LOT threatening. My response was to forever ignore his church - and ignore it from a visceral level.
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I am so glad you got you and your family out and have taken back your life! I can’t imagine not knowing you. You’ve made such a wonderful difference in my life!
And oh, nice pic of Tom!
I think that the word cult has changed to mean something dangerous. It’s not wrong, just a different main definition.
Same here. I’ve even tried to understand it, to figure out what they believe in. I get lost every time.
He’s aged well, too! And survived all those stupid stunts. Hmm.
Whoa. Red flags all over the place! I wonder why the heck a priest was going after a nine-year-old so badly? Ick. Glad you ignored him!
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I was browsing the news and discovered a common use of ‘cult’ as a positive term Cult Movies!
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I saw that article too and thought of this discussion! LOL!
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That’s scary on a lot of levels - and seriously messed up. A 9 year old being threatened with hell? These people… 
You’re to be commended for staying in control and away from him/them.
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Dude, that is positively awful, so sorry you went through that! And the whole visceral thing is totally understandable, I can relate 
Me too, I have watched the documentaries featuring actual survivors and people who were there, and those who then went on to continue with the religion… but I just don’t get it. After realising that Hubbard created this scheme, they continue to believe in the “good” parts… although, I can understand the psychology of needing something good to hold on to after something so traumatic.
Thank you!! Very few actors ever do the majority of their own stunts, and that man has been doing it for decades… and still can?! Like I said, it makes me wonder whether there’s something to Scientology after all. Although, one could make the argument that the majority of faiths/religions believe in essentially the same thing, a Higher Power than us; whatever form one believes it comes in, doesn’t change the fact we’re all trying to vibe with the same energy.
I really enjoyed this discussion, and to see so many thoughts about it was enlightening 
With Love & Light x
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It’s very confusing. Are we aliens, or reincarnated, or reincarnated aliens? Who knows?
Hey, if you can raise energy for pop culture icons, like Batman and Loki, you can do it with Hubbard’s stuff. I just wish they picked someone with better ideas. Why couldn’t they believe in dragons from Pern instead?
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I wouldn’t say it’s the first but it’s definitely the biggest and longest running. I exited the church at 14 years old after being shamed and shunned for asking questions. I never looked back. After that, I realized how brainwashed I was at one point. Never again!
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These are some of my very favorite spells8 conversations! I agree with so much of this here! I was also raised roman catholic and there are a lot of pieces I love - and a lot of pieces I don’t. I also LOVE christian mysticism and have been lucky enough to study with some really amazing individuals who made it come alive for me. I don’t really have a point right now, just that this conversation makes me feel alive and I appreciate so many people sharing!
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Oh me too, the monastic chants are great for meditation and nerve regulation, Loki loves it too, I literally feel him chilling.
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