AI has no place in witchcraft

[bethany]

I follow the druid tradition, which teaches that Awen is the creative gift from the gods to humanity that provides us with our creativity and magic. The ancient bards and druids used Awen to tell incredible stories and cast powerful, earth-honoring magic.

AI is a threat to the foundations of witchcraft, and those threats are well known by people in communities facing the development of AI data centers.

Water consumption, land heating, noise pollution (said to be like an awful, high-pitched shriek you can hear over highway noise), increased energy bills, deforestation and habitat loss, and more. My community is facing multiple data center proposals in a short time that will devastate our energy bills and access to water.

Every time we prompt something into AI tools, we increase demand for AI data centers and destroy our land. If we follow a practice like witchcraft or Wicca, with its focus on honoring the land, the divine, and the spirits, then this is unacceptable. I won’t stand for it and neither should you. We need to:

1. Not personally use AI prompting for anything. Read, practice writing and ask someone to read over your writing, practice art, hire someone, do your own research, etc.
2. Boycott websites, products, services, books, and content that use AI

The planet is dying. Our spirits are dying. The gods see us spurn them by giving up Awen for machine-generated creative content. Unacceptable.

None of us should support this if we call ourselves witches, Wiccans, or pagans. Stand with me. We can start by ensuring this site and forum prohibits the use of AI-generated content, calling it out when we see it, and boycotting this site and others if they continue to allow it.

I mean this with the deepest respect and kindness. We are better than this. The earth needs us. We as witches need to heal the land, not destroy it.

Edit: I’m not saying anything in this thread from a place of being mad. I feel calm, focused, and certain of what is right. Disagreeing with someone’s choices and lack of acknowledging how MUCH choice we have is not intended as a personal attack on anyone. We all have to live with our own choices and what feels right to us. But I won’t minimize or ignore the harm from AI that is unprecedented. It’s not only harmful to the environment, it harms our cognitive health, and it steals from artists, writers, and thinkers due to models being created from uncredited stolen work.

It’s not an all or nothing situation. Reducing use through not prompting into chatbots, not paying for books and other content that uses AI, avoiding AI services where alternatives exist, and being more eco-friendly while living in our modern world IS possible. If we all did a small change, the world would be a better place.

Edit 2: I’m not mad at people here, but on reflection, I am mad. At my state governor for selling out my state’s beautiful forests to data centers. At my community leaders for their greed and allowing land to be bought up by AI companies. At tech companies for stealing humans’ work and feeding it into AI without credit or compensation. At corporate leaders for being greedy. At billionaires for not caring about the planet and pushing harmful technologies. At American politicians for not regulating AI. I should be mad. Anger is a transformative force. We should all be mad. We should all demand better.

[shanna5]

I understand all of this and I also wish AI had never been introduced! But the cat is out of the bag now. How do we not fall behind at work without it? I work in training development and we are NOT allowed to use AI because we create content ntent for the military and their info isn’t allowed to be uploaded into AI. But because other companies are using it, they are underbidding us. We can’t produce the same amount of content in that time frame. We can’t compete with AI. That being said, I have 3 dealerships looking for a jeep without any way to link to anything externally. I don’t even want OnStar in there. I am not sure how to navigate in this environment anymore. Thank you for this passionate, well-written post! I hope you have inspired people!

[tracyS]

This is a topic that has been discussed, but thankyou for your integrity in raising your view. I’m going to do a Loki and throw a spanner in the works.

First I don’t like AI, not because I don’t like technology, but because I don’t like the way AI is being developed, rushed, exploited and dominating without proper discussions, balances and checks. Should I be surprised? No, look at the Industrial revolution which pushed technology onto the world without thought for land or people, and we have benefited from this revolution! (we are chatting on technology right now).

So for me it’s never the machine that is at fault, the machine is an inanimate object that does not decide its fate. It’s the people behind the machine. In reality then to boycott AI you would have to delete all social media, including WhatsApp to boycott Meta. You also have to delete YouTube, Google, Apple, Microsoft, all internet providers, all banking apps, reading apps, alot of hospital services and apps, sat nav, TV, shopping apps: and the list goes on. To boycott would mean you would have to go back to the days of Yore. It just isn’t doable.

However, as a Nordic Practitioner there is another way to honour both gods, planet and the balance of a technological world.

First - you are absolutely right, we can do our own research, read books and support real experts with paying for services.

This alone would reduce the carbon footprint massively and would bring back balance. In the UK net zero is a real target and here in Bristol I have seen the huge improvement to people and air quality in just reducing our consumption.

Second - the Norse worldview puts a lot into perspective, we humans are literally non existent in comparison to a Universe that can create galaxies, self expand, and black holes that can consume those same galaxies, the ego of the human species is astounding! When we look at this, and understand that a single act of nature can not only wipe out our puny species but also recorrect and rebalance all of our deeds - we needn’t panic.

If these gods/deities truly exist, and are originated from the primordial essences that power our universe, then they are already 1000 steps ahead of us.

Transition is hard, it’s frightening and unfair. But boycotts rarely work, and with something as enormous as AI, it’s impractical. The human race, animal kingdom and planet are alot more resilient than we give credit, and alot more adaptable.

Perhaps for me it’s more about restoring balance and moderation. Rather than choosing the quickest, cheapest, fastest option when writing a spell, learning divination, getting a rune or tarot reading or creating a picture and using AI to do it, we should take time, use our own skills and work collaboratively to get these answers and needs met.

That would in itself reduce consumption of AI, reduce the need for data centres en mass and restore balance.

Remember, it’s not just AI that is the cause of the environmental damage we see today, it’s all technology from cars, buses, trains, boats, planes, plastic, factories, packaging, banking, gaming, telecommunications, global trade, and our storing all our emails, photos, videos in the cloud, together with netflix, Hollywood, e-readers and on and on.

What we need is balance and integrity. Let’s do our own homework, write our own work and not share others work without asking. Let’s reduce our own carbon footprint by taking off the internet what we don’t need, take our lights, fridge off, print out photos, delete old emails, reduce our time online, buy books and dvds, cancel our music subscriptions, etc these small things done on mass reduce the need for mass storage of our stuff online. And makes huge changes.

I’m an old school activist, and I’ve noticed the ease at which we can demand change from behind a keyboard, however real change happens in the small changes every individual makes in their own personal life - and whilst we all claim to be environmentally concerned whilst storing huge amounts of our own stuff online, we are being hypocritical. Loki always makes us look in the mirror before we look to campaign. If we want less data centres of any sort, then we need to clean up our own house first. Just saying.

Sorry if I’ve offended, I’ve shocked myself in that I think I’m giving a small defence for technology, but I feel we do need to honour the advantages to our lives that technology has brought, and actually hold to account the true perpetrators of damage which, sadly, are human beings.

Skal

[bethany]

You’re right that it’s very hard to completely boycott AI. I don’t use Meta besides Facebook purely to stay in touch with family. I have an old phone from 2020. I don’t use smart cameras or Alexa. I have this forum only as my social media otherwise. I use web browsers and search engines that don’t force AI onto users. I avoid Google. Am I completely AI-free because of all services needed in the present day? Not entirely. You’re right that it’s impossible. But I minimize it as much as I can. I don’t use AI chatbots and boycott books written with AI and AI-generated “art.” It’s better to do an imperfect boycott than none at all, and the Montgomery Bus Boycott is a historical example of boycotts working. It’s not true that they don’t. Under capitalism, money is the only thing that talks.

I don’t use anything I don’t have to, and yeah that does isolate me. I focus on finding groups in my local community and volunteering. I wrote a letter to the editor in my newspaper speaking out against data centers. The impact to the environment and our souls is unprecedented though. If I don’t do this for the sake of what’s right, I’m not honoring Odin and the gods. They gave me Awen for a reason.

You’re also right that AI isn’t the only harmful thing under capitalism in our society. I try to engage in other slow-living and sustainability practices, buy digital and physical music rather than subscriptions, reuse and reduce consumption, reduce meat and dairy, etc etc. I try to honor the earth in many ways. I’m far from perfect. But it’s better to try than do nothing.

[bethany]

My workplace wants to push AI. I really don’t have an answer for you on competitiveness etc. This post is meant to be specific to witchcraft-related practices and nonessential uses of AI, especially those that replace human creativity.

[tracyS]

Absolutely and you’d be surprised that the little changes make an enormous difference. I’ve been an activist for amongst others, Greenpeace for over 30 years, campaigned for gay rights during the Aids crisis to get healthcare, and now working to get net zero. The changes that have come, LGBTQ+ rights, eco energy, recycling as standard, no free plastic bags in shops, etc and now UK energy prices being removed from the gas price index and actually being priced on the net zero energy link, bringing prices down in the next few years, (took 30 years) will make lives better. Never underestimate the ant, it may be small but it’s powerful.

Odin and the Norse way is very linked with Orlog and the rune Fehu , which is by making small changes in our life, that ripples to our family, to our community ends up changing the world. I think fear is our greatest enemy, and in the face of fear we are weakened. When we apply (ISA) we stay calm, think clearly and using Loki’s energy we can navigate the chaos we are currently living through.

You’re contribution may seem small but it makes waves, and many waves bring tsunamis: and change will come.

Skal

[shanna5]

I get that. I just started my journey and don’t have enough experience to weigh in on “if AI belongs in witchcraft”. I am reading as fast as I can, but I feel I am just scraping the surface. I appreciate your stance and your passion! I am an artist though, so I do have opinions. I am a hard artist really. I dabble in digital things, but mostly just to help me with painting. I have used AI to generate inspiration pictures. I struggle with lighting if I don’t have an image or reference in front of me. Also, perspective some..geometry and buildings…So more than once, I have used it to make an image for me that I can use as a guide to help me keep on track in my art. I will be looking more into the global impacts to our planet. I know that they are vast. But is that what is needed to make the next big breakthrough in science and finally solve the power crisis? Will AI solve how to make fossils fuels unneeded?

I am just throwing out concepts here. I have not landed on my AI stance yet. There are a lot of angles to look at, so I am still researching and learning. Great discussion though! I am thinking about all new angles now. Thank you!

[tracyS]

@shanna5

Just my little pennies worth, when it comes to witchcraft, we all start somewhere, and there is no hurry. Our ancestors rappled with the progress of their day and whether it was good or bad, and what the gods thought. These turmoils were in their technology revolutions. Every generation is beset with decisions in their spiritual practices as to what is ethical and what is not - and we too are faced with such decisions with AI.

It’s important not to get overwhelmed lovely

Skal

[shanna5]

I agree! Thank you for the insight and experience! I like learning and enjoy the internal debate as I toss around different ideas and aspects of a situation.

[Feathertip]

I applaud your stance on this! My own opinion has been expressed here and it matches your own.

I support your notion of leaving AI out of our personal practices as much as reasonably possible. I’m not anti-technology at all - I think the point is that we all must come to a reckoning of the times in which we are born. Most of us are educated enough to write our own spells and prayers, and it’s not a huge lift to avoid websites and other content that relies heavily on AI.

As @tracyS says, we’re not the inventors of this technology, but we are living with it in our particular time frame on this planet. We must each come to terms with our current society which IS, in fact, doing harm to the Earth we cherish. This has always been the case with humans, but every generation we seem to ratchet it up even higher.

Doing what we can to reduce our personal carbon footprints helps. We are not powerless. Small things like @tracyS mentions (not choosing the quickest, cheapest options for spell writing or our personal divination) do add up and make a difference!

@bethany

I don’t use anything I don’t have to, and yeah that does isolate me. I focus on finding groups in my local community and volunteering. I wrote a letter to the editor in my newspaper speaking out against data centers.

You go, girl! Your voice is powerful - and you’re using it!

@shanna5

Will AI solve how to make fossils fuels unneeded?

It would be a hoot if it did, since it’s an enormous drain on electricity and water! Would it advise us how to help in its demise? Would we do it if we got that advice?

I enjoy these discussions. I know no one is trying to offend anyone. We’re all grappling with the same issues. There are simple things we can all do, and even if something like writing with AI gets put aside as we re-train our minds to write our own stuff - it’s better for our brains as well as the environment!

Thank you for speaking from your heart and soul, @bethany!

[shanna5]

Oooh interesting! I would like to believe we would do the right thing no matter what. But I am nervous that whoever makes those decision will not. If I had the plug in my personal hand…I would pull it!

This conversation can tie into @SilverBear s post: The Lost Art of Ritual from this morning.

Talking about Awen and misusing our creative gift ties into slowing down and bringing back the small, daily rituals. If we are forced to create our own incantations, we will spend more time pondering the intention of the spell. We could also ask our coven members for help! Some of you are lyrical geniuses! I’ve seen some beautiful writing here!

Same goes for graphic help (I am guilty). If we don’t have the capability, we can ask for assistance or maybe learn a new skill!

I love the conversation though!

[bethany]

Thank you, that means a lot! Congrats to the UK for positive changes! I’m from the US unfortunately. I do what I can without putting it all on my shoulders.

[tracyS]

Don’t underestimate the impact you have. Sometimes we don’t see it, but it’s there.

[SilverBear]

As someone whose primary profession is social media marketing, I don’t really have the luxury of ignoring it.

It’s how I earn a living. Support my family, pay my bills, and keep a roof over my head.

I’ve been working in this industry for about 20 years. If I refuse to adapt to industry changes and emerging trends i lose my clients. If I lose clients, i lose income.

The reality os that AI is no longer some distant future technology. It’s already woven in our lives.

It’s built into Facebook, Google, websites, search engines, smartphones, computers, and countless other tools we use every single day. Whether people realize it or not most of the technology they interact with already relies on AI in some form. Got apps on your phone?..you are probably using AI.

As a marketing professional, understanding and using these tools isnt about chasing the latest fad, it’s about staying relevant in an industry that evolves constantly.

AI concepts have been around since 1956…

If you use spell check, google maps, netflix recommendations, facial recognition on your phone, voice assistance…etc…you have been using AI for years. It’s just people are now noticing it because everyone seems to be using it.

I do not have a solution…but I DO everything I can in a lot of other ways to help preserve the planet.

A lot of my ideas come to me in my brain. Yes, my very own brain. And sometimes I need help conveying what is in my brain to paper. I’ve always been a visual learner…so for me this has been very helpful to pour what has been trapped in my brain to something others can understand and learn from.

And Awen is often misunderstood as it’s divine inspiration, and creative flow…but, others would argue whether someone writes with pen, typewriter or computer etc…the question becomes, where did the idea originate? So for example…some followers believed the energy flows through human consciousness and that the tools are simply tools. The paintbrush doesn’t create the art. The person creates the art using the tool.So, who are we to judge which tool they choose?

I understand the environmental impact. I GET IT.

HOWEVER…

Social platforms

Streaming services

Cryptocurrency

Cloud Storage

Online shoppng

Smart phones… I could go on…

ALL carry environmental costs. ALL of it. This issue is larger than AI alone.

So if humans want no environmental impact - pack up your stuff. Get rid of the internet, computers, phones, Ipads etc and move into a mushroom hut in the woods. lol.

In all seriousness though…I am NOT writing this with attitude. I am merely giving another perspective. I don’t know what the solution is…but I do my best to make sure my impact is minimal.

Blessed be.

[tracyS]

@SilverBear

but I do my best to make sure my impact is minimal.

And this is probably the greatest thing we can do. I remember an old Norse shaman once saying, "it’s not what we consume but the quantity and speed we consume it with, the earth can sustain life but it struggles to sustain greed"

If every person lived this way, we probably wouldn’t be in the current mess we are in.

Skal

[bethany]

This topic is about AI in witchcraft and related subjects and for replacing human creativity. Just make peace with calling yourself a witch and how AI demand ruins communities, the environment, and otherwise harms the spirits. Data centers are in the process of trying to get approved to be built near my home, depleting my well water and raising my electric bill, causing noise and air light and heat pollution, and harming the beautiful nature and animals I live near.

Comparing paintbrushes to AI is ridiculous; one involves effort, practice, and human creativity. One uses a machine to generate a most likely response containing humans’ stolen art, writing, and wisdom. No one was ever paid or credited for AI illegally being fed from their work. I’m well aware of what Awen is.

We can reduce it as much as possible and especially not use it when it isn’t necessary, along with many other eco-friendly changes.

I’m not going to coddle the impacts of your choices; I’m very well aware of how AI has seeped its way into everything. I find my ways to avoid, minimize, and boycott, along with other ways of trying to be more eco-friendly. Perhaps people underestimate how much it is possible to divest from AI.

That’s what I’m called to do spiritually, and it has no place in my witchcraft, druidry, or paganism. I don’t buy AI books or art. I don’t prompt chatbots.

You are free to make your own choices and live with them, as am I.

[SilverBear]

You completely missed that whole point…I wasn’t comparing paint brushes to AI. What I was TRYING to say…is no matter WHAT tool you use…WHERE did the idea of that “art” originate from.

You just want to be mad. And I am just trying to have a conversation. So I am bowing out. Blessed be.

[bethany]

I’m not mad, but you do you. AI uses stolen art and words so it is a different foundation.

[bethany]

When I’m afraid, this is all that lets me sleep at night. I’m a sensitive intuitive and I know that so much destruction can’t continue without severe repercussions. I cried and prayed to Odin last night asking what I can do, and writing about it is where he guided me. I want to be a healer, not an activist. But earth is grieving.

Ragnarok is coming. One day. But we can delay it, I hope.

[tracyS]

@bethany

want to be a healer, not an activist

And you will be, me I’m an activist (Can’t really be anything else with Loki as a patreon ).

@bethany

Ragnarok is coming.

Ragnorok just if I may, is not the end of the world. Remember Loki sneakily tucked Baldr away with Hel in Helheim. This was so Baldr could return and rebuild, not cause Loki was being evil. Ragnorok is the changing of world orders and the disruption and chaos it brings, like the fall of Persia to Greece, Greece to Rome and then Rome to now, it’s nothing to fear just something that’s difficult to navigate.

@bethany

When I’m afraid,

Remember the Norns weave the Wryd, fate is not our enemy but a friend, the Norse view is all things are as they are intended, and it’s up to us as to what we do in the timeline of our life, things that are above our control, the gods, particularly Thor will deal with directly, that’s why Thor has direct access to our planet and can bypass the Bifrost. These stories are not literal but myth designed to help us ease anxiety and navigate our world both past, present and future. But the energies behind the gods whether you view the gods as beings or not, are real.